CM: "I would like to be closer to some of my kids. Hell - I would like to know where all of them are! I have lost touch with some of them and have no idea where to start looking. They have moved on with their mothers - and the communication stopped. But even the ones that I have communication with, most of them do not show much interest in what is happening in my life. There was the loss of my extensive wildlife library with many first additions and really old books that I deeply regret. They were destroyed during Hurricane Mitch in Central America. Like a lot of people, there was times I took bad advice and made bad decisions, and times I got good advice and made good decisions, but no - I have few regrets about the life I have lived, it is still an adventure to me, and will be to the end."
NHM: "I always admired that about you - your sense of 'survival'. Nobody or no institution to fall back on if all goes wrong. In the States most everyone seems to have some safety cushion with their family, friends, unemployment, welfare system, etc. And yet they still have a hard time making a decision to take any risks! And you - well I have seen you take every kind of risk and be way up or way down on the financial scale, like close to starving, and you always come up with a way to pull through without the backing of some support group or government program. I think a real adventurer is self-reliant and resourceful - you have always been like that. I know you have not seen it - but there is a popular TV show called 'Survivor', that is really all about personalities and not survival abilities. Boy are they sending out the wrong message on what it takes to be a survivor! They should document your life if they want to portrait the real thing about being a survivor. Well - that is Hollywood for you. So are we going to talk about how many wives and kids and in what countries?"
CM: "That can wait for the autobiography. I'm only 65 and the record has not been closed. (We start laughing). I really intend for this to be my last wife and my last home - here in Peru is where I want to spend the rest of my life. The animal business is too stressful and iffy to really spend any more effort on. And I agree with what you have been saying about bringing people to the wilderness as a fitting career change for people with our background. Who better to do the ecotourism business then a couple of jungle trampers with a lifetime of experience with the animals, plants, fish, and all the rest?"
NHM: "Yes, this is a great opportunity for us to still enjoy going into the bush - well, you kind of live there now, but this means we get to do some deep exploration of the region and help preserve the environment of the Amazon and the culture of the Shipibo Tribe. Have you got something sketched out yet or a plan, or something to offer right now?"
CM: "There has been meetings with people around here for a couple years trying to stir up interest in this kind of tourism development. And I have seen some nice ecolodges in Ecuador, so I have a lot of ideas on what works. Our problem in the past (for this region) had been the terrorists, so we have fallen behind in tourism development as compared to what is going on down in Iquitos and up around Cusco. The 'Sendero Luminosa' guerrillas had been put out of action a couple years ago, so it should not be hard to do ecotourism here now. You go down to Iquitos and the most common species around is the tourists! There are boat loads of them everywhere you look. That has to spoil the experience of 'wilderness' for some of them. You have been here almost three weeks - how many tourists have you seen?"
NHM: "None on the river or tributaries. I ran into a couple German tourists in Pucallpa once, after a dozen trips into town. No Americans. I asked about tourists in a souvenir store and they said that tourists come during the January through April period - and that most were European. This area is still unspoiled. In fact I am really impressed by the friendliness of the people in Peru and the Shipibos Indians. Everyone we came across in the bush or villages were more then just friendly - they were down right polite. Hopefully that will not change with the coming of tourists! So many places I have traveled in the world, civilized and uncivilized, where I, as a stranger, was treated rudely, or at the very least, with obvious suspicion. So what are your plans?"
A friendly Shipibo Princess
CM: "We want to put together a cooperative ecotourism program with my wife's tribe that will be a boast to the tribe's efforts to preserve this area's wilderness environment and their Shipibo culture. There are government people that have helped with programs like this in other areas of the country and we will get them to help us on our planning too. In the meantime I want to start up with 'Safari Outfitting' - providing the material support and guides for scientific exploration and photography. This would be for people already experts in their field of study, but needing assistance to go into this area of the Amazon. I have a couple of cabins built for guests in my compound that might be good to use for student groups. I can build more accommodations so that we could facilitate extension studies for university students. And last but not least, we have excellent sports fishing for Peacock Bass and the Wolf Fish - Payara. I will be ready to handle the sports fishermen in June".
NHM: "Charlie, all this sound exciting, and I am looking forward to being a part of putting this together with you - as well as participating in some of the adventure. Nothing rejuvenates the body and soul like commuting with Nature in the most primitive of places. And at our age we can use all the rejuvenating we can get! (we both are laughing again). I think what would be important on some of these 'Safari Outfitters' type operations is the opportunity to return home with some specimens. Can these scientists and hobbyists legally carry back some dried plant leaves or seeds? How about some dead bugs? And what about the ones into freshwater tropicals that might want to return home with some live fish, or the herpers with some reptiles? And your wife's Uncle Mateo - the Shaman with the psychedelic herb 'Ayahuasca', can they bring anything home from that experience besides vivid memories?"
CM: "We are in the process of finding out how this can be done. If we can demonstrate to the government that the manner in which these collections are made and the quantities involved do not have any kind of negative impact on our environment, then we should be able to get the permits needed for their export with the client. Obviously there is a sustainable level for most species. We are not talking about the collection of threatened or endangered stuff. And there is a need for exploration for new species that we know exist here as well as our need for more knowledge of known species. If all of this is done in the context of what we are trying to accomplish with the conservation of the Amazon and its indigenous people, we should be able to get the government's cooperation."
NHM: "Ah - let us not forget about one other type of adventure available up the Calleria, the search for gold. Are you going to make it one of the 'safaris'?"
CM: "It is a possibility - if we are talking about something 'low-impact', like panning in the river. There are several legal questions that need answers before we can go forward on that one."
NHM: "The readers of this interview will be able to go to the website 'BluePeru.com' to keep tabs on the progress of your ecotourism business in Peru. So let us wrap up this interview with the promise that if you write any books about all those past - or present adventures, I will post notices on my websites. Any last words?"
CM: "Watch out for those tiny blue ants in the outhouse - if you sit on one in the dark it will feel like you got shot in the ass!"
